In a heated interview on Fox News with Martha MacCallum, Black Lives Matter chair of Greater New York Hawk Newsome blows up and argues the BLM movement’s efforts.

MacCallum began the interview by quoting Newsome, saying that he wanted to “shove legislation down people’s throats,” and then asked him what exactly it is that he hoped to achieve through violence. Newsome responded, claiming that the United States was “built upon violence,” and cited the American Revolution. He also argued that American diplomacy consisted of “blowing up other countries” and replacing their leaders with those who we like more.

“So for any American to accuse us of being violent, it’s extremely hypocritical,” Newsome continued, as MacCallum tried to cut in.

Then things got awkward as Newsome suddenly said, “Now when we talk about us using self-defense, we use—why are you screaming and not allowing me to talk, ma’am? You asked me a question, allow me to answer.” He continued, saying that he was in the process of answering MacCallum’s question about what they wanted to achieve and then repeated that he was talking about self-defense.

Newsome then went to insist that the protests and riots were only a form of self-defense and that their ultimate goal was “to save lives.”

After barely touching the BLM movement, which was the topic, Newsome jumped to another topic and talked about the Second Amendment. He said, “Seeing as though you are huge supporters of the Second Amendment, it seems to be the hypocrisy of America that when black people start talking about arming themselves and defending themselves, the talk is violent.” He claimed that on the other hand, when white people “grab assault rifles” and go to state capitals, it’s all good.

MacCallum cut in once again and said that she never talked about her personal position on the Second Amendment. But Newsome just couldn’t get enough and then pressed on, saying, “A lot of your viewers would like to know if you support the Second Amendment.”

MacCallum stood her ground and refused to answer Newsome’s question and went back to her original one. “The only reason I posed that first question to you the way that I did, I watched you talking on a bunch of different interviews today, and you said, ‘Burn it down,’” adding that it made her think Newsome really wanted to “burn it down.”

Newsome responded, saying, “If this country doesn’t give us what we want, then we will burn down the system and replace it.” Then he followed it up by saying that he could be speaking figuratively or literally, it depends on the interpretation.